A Show About Nothing—What Happens When You Interview Someone "Ordinary"?

Dustin Grinnell (00:00:00 --> 00:01:40)
I'm Dustin Grinnell, and this is Curiously.

Ever since starting this podcast in early 2023, every episode I've made has been about something. I'll read a book or review a person's achievements and develop a list of detailed questions for a guest in a somewhat journalistic style. I then have an in-depth discussion with the guest on a topic or subject of interest. But what if I threw all that structure and preparation out the window? What if I did a show that didn't have a specific topic, that didn't involve any on the guest part, or mine.

That wasn't about big ideas or major accomplishments. A show like this might be like the iconic TV show Seinfeld, which was described in an episode as "a show about nothing" because it focused on the minutiae of daily life. In 1992, Susan Orlean, a New Yorker staff writer, did something like this in her article for Esquire about an entirely unfamous 10-year-old boy named Colin Duffy. To write her article, Orlene parachuted into Colin's life and wrote a portrait titled "The American Man, Age 10," about the life of a young boy who was preparing to become a man. Today I bring you Bob, an American man, age 73.

Bob Smith, not his real last name, is my brother's father-in-law, who I have the pleasure of hanging out with a few times a year on holidays and at family get-togethers. Like Duffy, Bob is decidedly unfamous. But he's also hilarious and kind and goofy and quick with a comeback, and he means the world to the people in his life. And I was more than happy to sit down with him and see what he has to say. So without further ado, I give you Bob in our show about nothing.

Dustin Grinnell (00:01:42 --> 00:01:44)
Bob, welcome to the podcast.

Bob Smith (00:01:44 --> 00:01:45)
Thank you for inviting me.

Dustin Grinnell (00:01:45 --> 00:02:01)
So today I wanted to do something a little different on the podcast. Normally I come up with a bunch of questions and, uh, do a lot of preparation. But we were at my brother's son's first-year-old birthday party. Correct. That was probably a month and a half ago.

Bob Smith (00:02:01 --> 00:02:02)
Yeah, approximately.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:02 --> 00:02:04)
And you were my brother's father-in-law.

Bob Smith (00:02:05 --> 00:02:05)
Yes.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:05 --> 00:02:06)
Last time I checked.

Bob Smith (00:02:06 --> 00:02:08)
Yes. I was thinking son-in-law, but that's right, father-in-law.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:09 --> 00:02:32)
Right. And I am his brother. And we were talking about the podcast and you came up with the show idea. You said, you know what you should do? You should do a show like Seinfeld, a show about nothing. And we talked about it and I loved it. I loved the idea. So I thought about it and I wanted to talk to you about nothing. And we're gonna try to make that work.

Bob Smith (00:02:32 --> 00:02:34)
Right up my alley. Love nothing.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:35 --> 00:02:37)
What do you like about nothing so much?

Bob Smith (00:02:37 --> 00:02:47)
Well, sometimes it's just your mind just goes and thinks about nothing. And some, eventually something pops into your head that's important to you or important to other people.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:47 --> 00:02:49)
So sometimes your mind is blank.

Bob Smith (00:02:50 --> 00:02:51)
Many times it's blank.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:51 --> 00:02:53)
Would you say it's blank? Give me a percentage.

Bob Smith (00:02:53 --> 00:02:57)
I'm retired now, so there's a lot of blankage in there. I have no schedule. I don't know what day it is.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:57 --> 00:03:04)
Right. So you'd say on a day-to-day basis, your mind is probably blank between 90% to 95% of the time?

Bob Smith (00:03:04 --> 00:03:06)
I'd say 94.2%.

Dustin Grinnell (00:03:06 --> 00:03:12)
Okay. That's very precise. And then when the other 5% is not blank, what are you thinking about normally?

Bob Smith (00:03:13 --> 00:04:08)
Mostly my family. My children, my grandchildren. I'm at a point in my life where I can sit back and spend time with them, especially the little ones. I have 5 grandchildren. The oldest is 7 and the youngest is just a year old.

I had a great time yesterday with 2 of them. So that really is what I'm all about now is just spending time with them and helping them out, babysitting if they need that. I do miss some of the physical activities. I used to play a lot of golf. Where I live, there's, many activities.

Dustin Grinnell (00:04:09 --> 00:04:12)
And what is it about family? Why is it so important to you?

Bob Smith (00:04:12 --> 00:04:16)
Oh boy. I had a great experience growing up, great parents.

Dustin Grinnell (00:04:16 --> 00:04:18)
Was that in Massachusetts?

Bob Smith (00:04:18 --> 00:04:49)
In Massachusetts, yes, from the city, from the second of five. And we just had a good time. It was, you know, we love each other. And now that I have my own, it's like I learned a lot from my parents and want to have that trickle down to my kids. I have 3 children, 5 grandchildren, like I said. You know, I didn't really ever think about, oh, some people, I want to get married someday and settle down, have a family. You know, it just, All of a sudden I met the right person and it worked out fine.

Dustin Grinnell (00:04:49 --> 00:04:58)
What did you— you said you want things to trickle down to your kids and to your grandchildren. What lessons, what did you learn that you like to pass down?

Bob Smith (00:04:59 --> 00:05:39)
And they're all very different from each other. I'm very happy with the spouses that they married. I love all of them. They're perfect for each other. I don't have to worry about that as a dad.

You know, that must be difficult for a mom or a dad to have to worry about a spouse of their child and, you know, there's issues there, whether you should get involved or not get involved, or you're trying to tell them something that bothers you about that. I don't have to worry about that.

Dustin Grinnell (00:05:39 --> 00:05:41)
They chose winners. They chose people you don't have to worry about.

Bob Smith (00:05:41 --> 00:05:56)
They did. You know, I remember, I recall asking one of my daughters, I kid him all the time, anyhow, you know, when he was leaving, take care of my baby, because she's the youngest. And his response was, always. It was just perfect, you know?

Dustin Grinnell (00:05:56 --> 00:06:12)
And when you are with, like, family members, like, say, when we were at my brother's, his son's 1-year-old birthday party, You look like a happy guy. What is it about that that makes you happy?

Bob Smith (00:06:12 --> 00:06:48)
Well, it's, again, it's family. When I see everybody around enjoying each other's company, you know, it's funny, it's not really funny, but most families get together when there's a celebration or a funeral or a death in the family, which is more difficult. So yeah, I was happy that day. I love to see my grandchildren playing together, seeing my children there and their spouses together, things like that. I mean, even seeing you, I don't see you that often. You know, you live not very close close to where I live. And yeah, I was happy. Just the whole experience. I mean, birthdays are anyhow, and the first birthday is usually especially important.

Dustin Grinnell (00:06:48 --> 00:06:49)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:06:50 --> 00:07:12)
You said, you know, it's an interesting word, happy, right? What is happy? What is the definition of happy? Does it mean experiencing joy? Does it mean, like, having meaning? Does it mean pleasure? Does it mean fulfillment or satisfaction? You want your kids and grandkids, probably everybody around you, friends and family, to be happy? What does it mean to be happy?

Bob Smith (00:07:13 --> 00:07:55)
Enjoying your life, getting up every day and having some kind of a reason for do whatever you're doing. Um, you know, any life is going to have hills and valleys, and as long as they understand when they are down that they can change that— how do I express that to them? It's, you know, ever since I was a little kid, there's something inside me that it's just, I can always go to and it makes me feel good. And I'm not even sure how to explain that. It's just part of your soul. And I'm just hoping that my kids have that same experience. Now look at the world today. It's easy just to get depressed. And you gotta look at something that will make you happy, make you just forget about that and move on.

Dustin Grinnell (00:07:56 --> 00:08:12)
The thing you accessed, what is it? Is it a memory? Is it a reminder that this too shall pass? Is it, You kind of like pointed to your gut a little bit. You kind of said there's something in there, something in my gut that I— it's like a touchstone or something. What is that?

Bob Smith (00:08:13 --> 00:09:54)
And there are times it's harder, depending what's going on in my life, it's harder to find it, but I know it's there. And it just happens. I think it's just focusing on it. And meditation sometimes is good, is just to relax. And, you know, I have this thing in inside me where if things are going wrong or something, I have these two words that I state, "Trust Jesus." And the reason I use those two words is when I was working in Boston, I had a very stressful job, difficult job.

Things would get to me and others, and there was a lot of disagreements and so on and so forth. And I remember leaving the office and didn't even tell anybody. It was around lunchtime. And so probably nobody really missed me that much, but I went over to the Commons, Park Street Station is there, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. And I'm just sitting there and kind of depressed and, oh man, am I doing the right thing here at work?

I'm at all disagreement with this person and disagreeing with another person, 'cause we had all these team meetings and there was a lot of confrontation. And I had my head down and then I lifted it up And I looked at this Park Street station where there's usually some graffiti on it. Well, the only two words that were there were the two words, "Trust Jesus." And it's like, what? Where'd that come from? So sometimes I reflect on that.

Dustin Grinnell (00:09:54 --> 00:10:11)
And it's a medicine, it's consoling. And it's consoling for what reason? Is that there's, things are gonna sort of, no matter how bad bad they are, that things are going to sort of figure themselves out, that maybe everything happens for a reason, that there are helping hands. Like, why trust him? Why put your trust in him?

Bob Smith (00:10:12 --> 00:10:19)
Because I believe there's an afterlife, and I think that, you know, it's like prayer. It's exactly— basically it's prayer.

Dustin Grinnell (00:10:19 --> 00:10:20)
It's a mantra, yeah.

Bob Smith (00:10:20 --> 00:10:54)
Yeah. I mean, I remember years ago I took Transcendental Meditation at Cambridge. I was about, I don't know, 18, 19 years old, and went through that process, and they give you a mantra. A word that's supposed to be kind of related to you. And I found out years ago it didn't really matter, you know. So I used that for a while and did some Transcendental Meditation, but I've been away from it for years. And now it's— I think it's something I like to go back to and try to help me relax because I'm kind of a high metabolism person. And sometimes I need something for me to calm me down and just let things flow.

Dustin Grinnell (00:10:54 --> 00:10:56)
And you're a religious man?

Bob Smith (00:10:57 --> 00:11:20)
Well, I am. I'm not as much as probably my family grew up a very strict Catholic upbringing, and I've kind of gotten away from that. I mean, I'm not one that goes to church every Sunday, and, uh, but I lately it's something maybe because I'm getting older, I don't know. But, uh, it's hard to define that as far as are you a religious person, what does that mean?

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:21 --> 00:11:31)
You subscribe to Christianity or— But you— Do you think there's— You sound like there's an afterlife in your interpretation.

Bob Smith (00:11:31 --> 00:11:32)
I hope so.

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:33 --> 00:11:38)
Because you don't want the light just to go out. You want to be heading off somewhere. Where is that to you?

Bob Smith (00:11:39 --> 00:11:46)
I don't have the answer to that. I don't think anybody really does. I think it's like there's a contract that you sign, not physically, that you never go home.

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:46 --> 00:11:46)
Can't tell anybody.

Bob Smith (00:11:46 --> 00:11:51)
No. I just hope that Creator has a sense of humor. I thought I'm screwed.

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:53 --> 00:11:55)
You start a lot of trouble up there, I think.

Bob Smith (00:11:55 --> 00:11:55)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:55 --> 00:11:56)
All the jokes, you know.

Bob Smith (00:11:56 --> 00:11:59)
Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:59 --> 00:11:59)
But good trouble.

Bob Smith (00:11:59 --> 00:12:04)
I'm a troublemaker like Woody Woodpecker. Yeah. Instigator.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:04 --> 00:12:04)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:04 --> 00:12:07)
Just always ribbing people. Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:12:07 --> 00:12:11)
You know, it's like a, I am, but I'm not. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:11 --> 00:12:11)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:12:11 --> 00:12:14)
That's, you know, sometimes I might go too far.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:14 --> 00:12:14)
Right.

Bob Smith (00:12:14 --> 00:12:18)
And oh, what did I say? Yeah, sometimes I speak before I even think.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:19 --> 00:12:42)
Yeah, I would say you're, um, kind-hearted, you know, you're, you're jolly but not mean-spirited. Yeah, and none of your jokes or sarcasm is mean-spirited. No. Um, we have a good time at, uh, family get-togethers and things. You were talking about work, being in the office, dealing with like politics and conflict and disagreement. What'd you do for work?

Bob Smith (00:12:43 --> 00:12:44)
Oof, where do I start?

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:44 --> 00:12:45)
You've had a lot of jobs, right?

Bob Smith (00:12:45 --> 00:12:46)
I have.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:46 --> 00:12:49)
Just rattle off like some of them, just the names.

Bob Smith (00:12:49 --> 00:12:49)
Okay.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:49 --> 00:12:52)
So erotic dancer.

Bob Smith (00:12:53 --> 00:12:56)
Yeah, that didn't go very well. Didn't last too long.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:56 --> 00:12:56)
Right.

Bob Smith (00:12:56 --> 00:14:30)
I mean, yeah. Let me tell you, I spent 34 years working for the federal government. Prior to that, I had many jobs also, but of the 34, I worked at IRS, I worked at, Food Nutrition Services, was an agency of the Department of Agriculture. I worked for the Office for Civil Rights under the US Department of Education as an investigator. Prior to that, I joined VISTA for a year down in North Carolina.

That's Volunteers in Service to America. That's similar to the Peace Corps, but you're here in this country. Been a bartender, I worked at UPS. I can go on and on. My last job actually, after I retired from federal government, I worked for this company called Work Opportunities Unlimited.

And basically, I'm a career resource specialist. We're getting contracts from Mass Rehab, Commissioner for the Blind, DYS. And I was basically trying to assist individuals with disabilities find jobs. And so basically, you would, once you have a new client, sit down with them and trying to find out what kind of things they like to do, help them with their resume, conduct a mock interview, prepare them for work, and then start to apply for jobs. And once they get a job, then you become their job coach because some, they might need assistance on the job.

Dustin Grinnell (00:14:30 --> 00:14:35)
Yeah, you weren't doing as much paperwork. It was face-to-face and you got to talk with them and coaching.

Bob Smith (00:14:35 --> 00:14:36)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:14:36 --> 00:14:39)
And see the results probably too. I'm sure you placed a lot of people.

Bob Smith (00:14:39 --> 00:14:40)
Oh yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:14:40 --> 00:14:40)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:14:40 --> 00:15:30)
And what was cool about it, I was the older guy. I had been retired and was doing this part-time and I'm working with a team of 3 or 4 on the South Shore. And then it, because we were making all these placements, I did, I worked there for 5 years. When I left, we had about 10 that were part of our team, which was great. And they kind of looked up to me 'cause I'm the older guy. Some of them, were intimidated going to a store and talking to the manager and that kind of thing. And I felt very comfortable with it. Plus I wasn't there for the money. The money wasn't so great, but I didn't need that at that time. Now I can do the things I really wanna do. 'Cause there was periods of time probably in my government career that, you know, it was really to make sure I can support my family. You know, some of the things were great to do and other things aren't, but now I can just quit this job and do something else if I felt like it.

Dustin Grinnell (00:15:30 --> 00:15:31)
So you still take jobs?

Bob Smith (00:15:32 --> 00:15:32)
I do, yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:15:32 --> 00:15:37)
And you do it for the enjoyment of it rather than the need to support a family, yeah.

Bob Smith (00:15:37 --> 00:16:06)
That's what's fun about it. I mean, when we moved to the Cape, I drove a van for this particular facility that housed people with dementia and Alzheimer's and take them to their medical appointments. And then once a week, I'd take the van out and we'd fill the van up and we'd just drive around to the beaches and put songs on and things of that nature. So, you know, again, it was just kind of fun. You know, I mean, it was part-time, a couple of days a week.

Dustin Grinnell (00:16:06 --> 00:16:08)
What did you like about that job?

Bob Smith (00:16:08 --> 00:16:29)
I liked the feeling of putting a smile on people's faces, you know, especially those who, who are really kind of losing it. You know, if you really got to be able to talk to them and find out what their life was like, which was amazing. You learn a lot, I think, from people that have had a lot of different experiences. Yeah. That's what it was all about.

Dustin Grinnell (00:16:30 --> 00:16:39)
How did you put a smile on their face? Was it just basically being attuned to someone and actually asking, showing an interest in their life, or was it jokes, or was it—

Bob Smith (00:16:39 --> 00:17:33)
I think it was a little bit of both. Sometimes they would just make a comment and I would come back. I'm trying to think of specifics now, but it's because it's been a few years. But I don't know, just putting music on. Music was great.

They start singing in the van and some of them would and some of them were still not there yet, but you deal with what you have, you know? And yeah, it just made me feel good to do that kind of thing for these people that were struggling. 'Cause you know, they're at the end of their life, you know, as far as that goes. And it also was during the COVID which was difficult because, you know, when we drove around in the van, We weren't allowed to get out of the van and they all have masks on. And that was difficult for them 'cause I think, especially on beautiful days, and then they can look out the window and that's basically it.

Dustin Grinnell (00:17:33 --> 00:17:34)
I'm sure they look forward to that.

Bob Smith (00:17:35 --> 00:17:36)
Yeah, I did too, actually.

Dustin Grinnell (00:17:36 --> 00:17:37)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:17:37 --> 00:17:37)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:17:38 --> 00:17:39)
Do you like caring for people?

Bob Smith (00:17:39 --> 00:17:40)
Yeah, yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:17:40 --> 00:18:04)
What is it about, you know, those two jobs you mentioned, it was sort of, Helping people with disabilities find work and get placed and the driving the van, you're caring for people. You're kind of doing things that are making a difference in people's lives. Like, what is it about just being that guy who's holding someone's hand and just, like, helping them?

Bob Smith (00:18:04 --> 00:18:26)
I don't know. It's kind of like, it's just something that makes me feel good. For example, you get a job for a kid A person who's struggling, has disability, let's say, and then they get a job, I get them a job, for example, in a supermarket, just bagging the groceries. They're out there every day versus, you know, there was a period of time when they weren't even allowed to be out there.

Dustin Grinnell (00:18:26 --> 00:18:27)
They're useful.

Bob Smith (00:18:27 --> 00:18:41)
When I go to the grocery store now and I see a bagger sometimes, you know, sometimes I'll have a conversation, you know, and sometimes their response might be off the wall or maybe not, but at least they're there and happy in what they're doing. And it makes me happy.

Dustin Grinnell (00:18:41 --> 00:18:46)
Yeah. Where do you get this spirit? You're just like a good guy.

Bob Smith (00:18:47 --> 00:18:51)
I don't know about that. Sometimes I have situations where maybe I'm not the best, but—

Dustin Grinnell (00:18:51 --> 00:18:53)
Yeah, we're all human. We say dumb shit.

Bob Smith (00:18:53 --> 00:18:55)
You're giving me too many pats on the back here.

Dustin Grinnell (00:18:55 --> 00:18:56)
Yeah, you're right.

Bob Smith (00:18:56 --> 00:18:57)
I struggle with that.

Dustin Grinnell (00:18:57 --> 00:18:59)
Let the record show that Bob is a real asshole.

Bob Smith (00:18:59 --> 00:19:00)
There you go.

Dustin Grinnell (00:19:02 --> 00:19:29)
I don't know. I mean, you turn on the TV, watch the news, it's just Machiavellian. Behavior. And watch shows like Suits and Breaking Bad. It's all about anti-heroes and people screwing each other over. And modern-day capitalism, people don't give a shit about each other. And, you know, it's, uh, self-interested behavior. It's— yeah, you're, you're not self-focused. Where the hell does that come from? How do you cultivate it?

Bob Smith (00:19:29 --> 00:20:08)
And I'm not the only one. I think a lot of people deep down like to help others. We're all human beings. We've got this common thread. I don't understand sometimes these battles over whether it's politics or, you know, I understand it, but it's like, you know, at some point, you know, we're all here on this planet for, we're all the same for somebody.

You can find that common thread. I mean, it really depends on where you were born. You know, what country, it changes and how you feel about things depending how you grow up. And that's, I don't know, I just, it's always been that way. I think a lot of my family members are the same way.

Dustin Grinnell (00:20:08 --> 00:20:22)
Do you have a sense that there's just, yeah, like a breakdown in civility, like in common decency, and we have more in common than we think? And to what degree just sitting down and seeing each other face to face cure a lot of problems, I feel?

Bob Smith (00:20:23 --> 00:20:41)
Yeah. I mean, I don't think people really understand each other because they don't take the time to have conversations. And really get to know people. And they judge people before they've even had an opportunity to talk with them. And I've done that in my past too. I've made those kinds of mistakes.

Dustin Grinnell (00:20:41 --> 00:20:44)
Yeah. So now you just sort of pump the brakes. You don't judge a book by its cover.

Bob Smith (00:20:44 --> 00:20:46)
Exactly. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:20:47 --> 00:20:51)
When we were emailing each other, there was a quote at the PS area of your—

Bob Smith (00:20:52 --> 00:20:58)
Success is knowing that one person, one life lives Breathe a little easier because of you.

Dustin Grinnell (00:20:59 --> 00:21:02)
That meant so much to you, you put it in your email. Like, why does that? Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:21:02 --> 00:21:10)
It's funny you said that. When I was working in an office, many times I would add that to the end of an email depending on what it was or who the person is.

Dustin Grinnell (00:21:10 --> 00:21:13)
Oh, so you sort of customize, you put it in, take it out.

Bob Smith (00:21:13 --> 00:21:13)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:21:13 --> 00:21:14)
Okay.

Bob Smith (00:21:14 --> 00:21:39)
Yeah. It's an Emily Dickinson quote. It's not something I made up, but depending on what the situation was, threw that in there. And what's funny is, One of my daughters has a tattoo of that same statement on her arm. And I can't remember whether she even knew that I put that in my emails or just came up with it on her own, 'cause it's kind of a cool thing. So I feel good about that, that we have something there in common, is how we look at things.

Dustin Grinnell (00:21:40 --> 00:21:51)
It's an interesting way of putting it, isn't it? It's like you're saying success, your definition of success is making someone breathe a little easier. What makes you feel successful when you do that?

Bob Smith (00:21:51 --> 00:22:34)
Great, you help somebody else out. The word success can mean a lot of different things to different people. Some people, it's making a lot of money and they've accomplished something and they feel good about that, which is fine. And other people might think success is winning a tournament or set a goal and then they were successful meeting that goal. My statement there is more of a general statement in a way that there's more to success than just that. It doesn't have to apply to everyone, but if you look at generally speaking, it would make you feel better and successful if you just helped make somebody else's life better.

Dustin Grinnell (00:22:35 --> 00:22:38)
Do you have any other quotes you live by? Any other tattoos on your kids?

Bob Smith (00:22:39 --> 00:22:42)
Oh boy, I have a tattoo, but it's all my kids.

Dustin Grinnell (00:22:42 --> 00:22:45)
Oh, those are your kids' names on your left arm, yeah.

Bob Smith (00:22:45 --> 00:22:55)
That's my coat of arms for my family name. And then these are actual signatures of my wife and my 3 children.

Dustin Grinnell (00:22:55 --> 00:22:57)
They wrote it down and then they tattooed it?

Bob Smith (00:22:57 --> 00:23:19)
They actually wrote it down. I didn't get this tattooed until I was 60 years old. And I went with my daughter who has a couple of tattoos and held my hand. No, not really. But she sat with me. I wanted to put something out there that meant something to me. So those are actual signatures. And then when I started having grandchildren, this is all in cursive, which they'll never know what cursive is, the young ones.

Dustin Grinnell (00:23:19 --> 00:23:19)
That's gone.

Bob Smith (00:23:19 --> 00:23:19)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:23:19 --> 00:23:20)
That's a dead language.

Bob Smith (00:23:20 --> 00:23:37)
The signatures were done by their parents. So there's the 5 there. And they're all done by the same tattoo artist. They're 3 different ones. Yeah, I see different styles. I moved around, you know? So I don't know if we get any more where I'm going to go with this. We might be done.

Dustin Grinnell (00:23:37 --> 00:23:39)
We'll go right to your hand eventually.

Bob Smith (00:23:39 --> 00:23:41)
Yeah. Why not? Start over here.

Dustin Grinnell (00:23:41 --> 00:23:42)
That's cool.

Bob Smith (00:23:42 --> 00:23:43)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:23:43 --> 00:23:45)
Is that the only tattoo you have?

Bob Smith (00:23:45 --> 00:23:47)
It is. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:23:47 --> 00:23:51)
Did you— why 60? Why'd you wait 6 decades before you got a tattoo?

Bob Smith (00:23:51 --> 00:24:14)
Um, I didn't really wait. It wasn't something I was, uh, you just want to have a tattoo someday. I retired at 60, at least with the federal government, before I went back and took all these little part-time jobs. So, uh, yeah, I just was thinking about doing something and said, okay, let me— and I didn't know it was going to go down all the way on up at the time. It just started here, which is fine.

Dustin Grinnell (00:24:14 --> 00:24:30)
Is there something in all your jobs? Is there something common in between them or are they kind of a little bit different? I guess what I'm trying— did you have like a guiding focus? Like I'm going to stay in this industry or sector or work function or did you just kind of bounce?

Bob Smith (00:24:30 --> 00:24:42)
It's funny. I didn't really— prior to college, after high school, what do I want to do? And I had filled out an application to VISTA and thinking that might be something to do, you know, get to some traveling, a little bit more about myself.

Dustin Grinnell (00:24:42 --> 00:24:43)
VISTA is?

Bob Smith (00:24:43 --> 00:24:48)
This is Volunteers in Service to America. Yeah, it's like the Peace Corps, but it's in this country.

Dustin Grinnell (00:24:48 --> 00:24:48)
Got it.

Bob Smith (00:24:48 --> 00:26:32)
And after 4 years of being a business major, I come home, come back, still didn't know what I wanted to do. That application I filled out for VISTA was still in the top drawer of my desk, pulled it out and decided, let me, let me try this out. And that's what I did for a year. And when I came back home, I went from a business major to a sociology major. So to try to answer your question, well, you know, I was all kind of all over the place.

And then I worked at a halfway house in Cambridge for a year with troubled youth because it was kind of similar to what I did in Vista. I worked in the prison system down there with troubled youth, but they were actually in prison. And some of these youths that I was helping out there, because the prison I worked in was an 18 to 21-year-old prison, minimum security. Some of them, if you lived up here, instead of being in prison, you'd be in the halfway house. So I dealt with these kids, 16 to 20, at a halfway house in Cambridge.

Cambridge, these kids had been to every program that existed to help them out, DYS, so on and so forth. This was like their last chance. So these kids were very troubled. So here I am working, business major, now I'm a sociology major, and I started to work for the federal government. And the first government job I had was with IRS, which I hated.

Dustin Grinnell (00:26:32 --> 00:26:34)
So you're just on the receiving end of receiving.

Bob Smith (00:26:34 --> 00:28:15)
Did that for one tax season. And then you kind of like laid off because the tax season's over. That's when it's the busiest. And that's when I started to apply for other federal jobs. And the next job I had, I worked there for 10 years as a quality control specialist where I was basically making sure food stamp recipients receiving the correct allotment of food stamps.

Food Nutrition Service is an agency of the US Department of Agriculture. And you'd say, well, what's that got to do with food stamps? Well, believe it or not, 50% of the funds that pay for food stamps, child nutrition programs, is from the federal government. And anytime the federal government is giving out money, they want it to be monitored. So that was kind of what my job was.

I was on the road throughout New England like 50% of the time. I would leave on a Monday, come back on a Friday, probably 2 weeks out of a month. And I would visit food stamp recipients' homes, sit down with them, discuss their criteria for food stamps, income, expenses, things of that nature. And then have to go out to these places and confirm that. To make sure they were getting enough food stamps or too much food stamps.

So I did that for 10 years and I loved the job. I was on the road all the time. I was single. I went to places that I would never even think of because you can own, most of the time you're going into these areas that low income, poverty, things of that nature. And then after 10 years, I was about as far as I could go in the grade level there.

Dustin Grinnell (00:28:17 --> 00:28:19)
So Vista, that was a positive experience for you.

Bob Smith (00:28:19 --> 00:28:20)
Really was.

Dustin Grinnell (00:28:20 --> 00:28:26)
What about that? Because you wouldn't— you may not think it would be given what you did and where you were working.

Bob Smith (00:28:26 --> 00:28:51)
Right. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself. Here I am growing up in Boston, Massachusetts, New England, kind of in the majority as far as, you know, religion, race, you know, here we go. And now I'm living in the South. I lived in Charlotte, North Carolina. First, I had went to Atlanta for training for 2 weeks where it was a lot different from what I'm used to. Even just my Boston accent.

Dustin Grinnell (00:28:51 --> 00:28:52)
So a fish out of water.

Bob Smith (00:28:52 --> 00:28:53)
Oh yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:28:53 --> 00:28:56)
So you were an outsider maybe for the first time?

Bob Smith (00:28:57 --> 00:29:00)
Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. That's how I felt. It's like, oh shit.

Dustin Grinnell (00:29:00 --> 00:29:01)
That can be disorienting.

Bob Smith (00:29:01 --> 00:30:29)
So yeah, I'm not in the majority anymore, you know, which is fine. The race factor growing up here in Boston, wasn't exposed to a lot of persons of color. And that was a great experience because there was other VISTAs that went as a team. There was 10 of us that went down there for one project and one goal. And the apartment complex that we lived in, we always had to have roommates and things of that nature because we got a very small stipend.

I think it was like $600 a month. 'Cause you're supposed to be living at a poverty level also, because you're helping people that, you know, are in that situation. But the entire complex started out all white, and in 6 months it went another direction and it was all Black. So we had that kind of experience of seeing what it was like. And everywhere you went to participate in any kind of events, it was so different for me to see persons of color that I didn't really was exposed to here.

Dustin Grinnell (00:30:29 --> 00:30:30)
Oh, this, okay, yeah.

Bob Smith (00:30:30 --> 00:30:38)
And so I mentioned, well, they were here first. You know, it's almost like you could see how they were treated differently than persons of—

Dustin Grinnell (00:30:38 --> 00:30:41)
You had seen something in contrast to that where you're from?

Bob Smith (00:30:41 --> 00:30:55)
Well, not really. I hadn't really been exposed to that. No, no. So that experience, it was good for me. We were living in the same country and I just seen differences in people that I didn't really see when I lived here in Boston.

Dustin Grinnell (00:30:55 --> 00:30:59)
And you said it was one of the best working experiences of your life.

Bob Smith (00:30:59 --> 00:31:07)
Well, yeah. It was good that I was exposed to a different part of the country. First time really kind of out on my own a little bit.

Dustin Grinnell (00:31:07 --> 00:31:08)
You were what age?

Bob Smith (00:31:08 --> 00:31:13)
I was 23. Okay. Yeah. 1973, 1974.

Dustin Grinnell (00:31:13 --> 00:31:14)
So you're out on your own. Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:31:14 --> 00:31:38)
On my own. The work was interesting. There were good days and bad days like anything. You're working with a lot of trust with inmates. We became like community organizers and counselors. They needed to get their trust so that we could do things that would help them because, for example, one thing that I was involved with was helping them get a home plan and a job plan whenever released.

Dustin Grinnell (00:31:38 --> 00:31:42)
Okay, so they're incarcerated, you're meeting with them, and you're working on like a post-get-out plan.

Bob Smith (00:31:42 --> 00:32:08)
Exactly. 'Cause the prison I worked in were 18 to 30-year-olds. 21-year-olds. It was a pre-release center in a way. So they're going to be released.

Their sentences were anywhere from 30 days to 2 years. It could be breaking and entering, possession of drugs, distribution of drugs, things of that nature. Many of them were misdemeanors versus felonies. So it's trying to get them back on the right track when they get out of— when they're going to be released soon. What are they going to do?

Dustin Grinnell (00:32:09 --> 00:32:17)
Similar to your other job, later on in life where you're working with, uh, people with disabilities, right? Sort of a career guidance counselor or coach.

Bob Smith (00:32:17 --> 00:32:17)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:32:17 --> 00:32:18)
So it was something of a thread there.

Bob Smith (00:32:18 --> 00:32:19)
Exactly. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:32:20 --> 00:32:32)
So you— what about that was like a satisfying work experience? The job itself? Like, um, I guess, uh, lining up work for people who are getting out of prison. You'd like that?

Bob Smith (00:32:32 --> 00:33:40)
I did. You know, it was all about making sure— if you know that that prison inmates are going to be coming out soon. I want to make sure that they've learned something. Rehabilitation is the wrong kind of word, I believe, but these are young kids and you hope that they'd straighten their life out a little bit by helping them with a home plan or a job plan, which was disappointing for me. What was difficult was I would go visit these inmates' families.

Most of the time they were just single mothers and believe it or not, Some of the mothers would tell me, "Keep my son there. He's getting 3 meals a day, a roof over his head." So this was a kind of a shock to me because I didn't grow up in that kind of a situation. So I started to understand that I was lucky to have what I had that they didn't have. Then I'd write up a report and they knew, these inmates knew when I was going out to visit their family. And when I'd come back, they wanna know how it all went, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:33:40 --> 00:33:41)
But what did they want to hear?

Bob Smith (00:33:41 --> 00:34:11)
They want to hear that, yeah, I got a place to go. They want to just get out of prison, home plan, job plan. And sometimes the jobs were like not anything they were really interested in doing, but they just want out. Yeah. You know, they've had it. And that's what concerned me too, is concerned anybody, is that they're just going to be back on the streets selling drugs, so on and so forth. So we didn't have follow-up after that. Once they're released, it wasn't my job to find out what are they doing now and where are they going and did they really stick with this job? Where are they living?

Dustin Grinnell (00:34:11 --> 00:34:12)
They come back?

Bob Smith (00:34:12 --> 00:34:39)
Yeah, it's a possibility. Yeah. We were only there one year in our, in our project. So sometimes you never found out anything else about them. I think it was up to the Department of Corrections to kind of keep an eye on that. Working with Department of Corrections was very difficult too, because They don't even trust us. We're there in a project. They've opened their places up to us to do what we want to do, but sometimes they would just take advantage of us and do things that their guards didn't want to do.

Dustin Grinnell (00:34:39 --> 00:34:40)
How so?

Bob Smith (00:34:40 --> 00:35:01)
For example, these inmates would work their way up to get a voucher to buy clothes, you know, and they could go out with a guard to a store and they could buy whatever they could, you know, clothes with their voucher. Well, it's one of the things guards didn't want to do. So they would have one of us go out there.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:01 --> 00:35:02)
They didn't want to go out shopping.

Bob Smith (00:35:02 --> 00:35:03)
They didn't want to do that. No.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:04 --> 00:35:07)
And do they, can they wear the clothes in the prison? Why would they go out?

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:07 --> 00:35:08)
No.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:08 --> 00:35:09)
So it was for after?

Bob Smith (00:35:09 --> 00:35:10)
Yes. Because they're going to be released soon.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:10 --> 00:35:11)
Okay.

Bob Smith (00:35:11 --> 00:35:18)
Yeah. There was all this criteria to get to that point. And to tell you the truth, I can't recall exactly. You know, they had to have good behavior and things of that nature.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:18 --> 00:35:24)
So technically, like a guard was supposed to accompany them, but they didn't want to do that. So they pawned it off to you?

Bob Smith (00:35:24 --> 00:35:31)
Yeah. We started to find out During that year, at least maybe after 6 months or so, we were doing the dirty work for them in a way.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:31 --> 00:35:32)
It's like social work.

Bob Smith (00:35:32 --> 00:35:33)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:33 --> 00:35:33)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:35:33 --> 00:35:33)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:34 --> 00:35:42)
It's funny because a couple months ago when we talked about the idea of just doing an episode together, you threw out the idea that it would be a little bit like Seinfeld, right?

Bob Smith (00:35:42 --> 00:35:43)
It'd be a show about nothing.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:43 --> 00:35:44)
And I was—

Bob Smith (00:35:45 --> 00:35:48)
I know, Scotty, this is so far, it's a little different than that as far as—

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:48 --> 00:35:49)
It's a show about everything.

Bob Smith (00:35:49 --> 00:35:50)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:50 --> 00:36:28)
But I think What if I said it's more that, generally speaking, people don't get a chance to have someone be so inquisitive about their life? Like, I'm genuinely interested in asking you sincerely about things you did in your life, and people open up. Like, people— that's, that's a good experience, I, I would think, in the sense that it's not— you're not getting a chance to boast or anything. It's just you're getting a chance to talk about your life. And do you feel like we just don't have opportunities for that? And this is an interesting opportunity to do that.

Bob Smith (00:36:29 --> 00:36:30)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:36:30 --> 00:36:31)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:36:31 --> 00:36:45)
Everybody should laugh every day if they can. Get both emotions, the extreme. Laugh until you're crying and almost on the floor. And then cry with tears. If you can do both of those, it's a release. Don't you feel better after you?

Dustin Grinnell (00:36:45 --> 00:36:45)
Do you feel?

Bob Smith (00:36:45 --> 00:36:49)
And if you didn't feel better, I mean, I haven't cried in years. You probably cry every day. I don't know.

Dustin Grinnell (00:36:49 --> 00:36:50)
Yeah, I'll cry after this.

Bob Smith (00:36:50 --> 00:36:51)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:36:53 --> 00:36:54)
I'm crying inside.

Bob Smith (00:36:54 --> 00:37:06)
Yeah. But don't you feel different or better? You do. Something dislodged. I'm exaggerating, of course, but if you can make somebody, like one of my goals every day is to try and make somebody laugh. Just stupid things, you know?

Dustin Grinnell (00:37:06 --> 00:37:07)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:37:07 --> 00:37:29)
You go to the grocery store, okay? And you're gonna get some cash back, $40, let's say. Usually ask, "How would you like that?" You know, tens, twenties. I say, "How about pennies?" So I get a laugh sometimes, but you don't know, and the laugh is good because you can work with that and they get it. But sometimes they stop for a second and they're looking around the cash register, and maybe they're not having a good day too, so you have to be careful.

Dustin Grinnell (00:37:29 --> 00:37:49)
[Speaker] Yeah, yeah. So laughter's medicine, the whole chestnut. Yeah, there's a book I like, this guy called Norman Cousins. He used to be, it's like maybe like in the '80s or '70s, this kind of high-powered editor of like a newspaper or something. He got struck by debilitating chronic illness.

Bob Smith (00:37:50 --> 00:37:50)
Uh-oh.

Dustin Grinnell (00:37:50 --> 00:37:51)
It was called ankylosing spondylitis.

Bob Smith (00:37:51 --> 00:37:52)
It makes me cry now.

Dustin Grinnell (00:37:52 --> 00:39:13)
For the most part, it's managing symptoms, and it's degenerative, and you're going to get worse, and it's going to be a short life and all that. And so he found a doctor who would be willing to do alternative treatments. So not like, you know, laying of hands or ayahuasca or something like that, but one of them was high doses of vitamin C and, and some, some other things. But one of his, like, treatments, quote-unquote treatments, was watching funny films. And he would watch them all the time.

He would go on these, like, binges of watching funny films. And, uh, long story short, he cured himself of his disease. He wrote a book called The Anatomy of an Illness, and so he cured this, uh, basically an autoimmune disease, uh, through various alternative therapies, one of which is like belief and hope and finding a, a doctor who he believed in. There was like a strong alliance between patient and clinician. That's important.

Bob Smith (00:39:14 --> 00:40:07)
Yeah, everybody needs that, I think, whether you have a disease or whatever. I think that people don't have enough laughter. And including myself. And I love it when you see somebody laugh because of something you did or somebody else did. You know, the best laughter, I think, is like the Seinfeld shows where it's not planned in advance. Like, I'm not a good joke teller, but if you're having conversations and you just come up with some quick little funny response to something— and again, it depends on who you're with and who the person is, because not everybody's going to take might take it seriously or not, or they'll get the sarcasm or not, which is fine. So I think a lot of times people adapt how they have conversations with people depending on who it is, which to me makes sense.

Dustin Grinnell (00:40:07 --> 00:40:37)
It's one of the reasons why I like improv shows, because it's spontaneous. They're just saying what comes to them in the moment, and generally that's the most funniest this thing. And it's like, part of what I'm laughing at least is, wow, you just came up with that on the spot. Like, I'm kind of blown away. That's, that's amazing. Yeah. So yeah, there's something— there's real fun and like just improving with someone. And that's the, that's the whole point of this show. There's nothing— it's unstructured, right?

Bob Smith (00:40:37 --> 00:40:38)
Which is probably—

Dustin Grinnell (00:40:38 --> 00:40:39)
it's a different major risk.

Bob Smith (00:40:39 --> 00:40:43)
Yeah, right. And we don't even— we don't really know each other that well.

Dustin Grinnell (00:40:43 --> 00:40:44)
Exactly right.

Bob Smith (00:40:44 --> 00:40:54)
We've probably Yeah, we've been to family gatherings, you know, half a dozen times, but there's other people there. We don't have really any deep conversations, or maybe no conversation, or—

Dustin Grinnell (00:40:55 --> 00:40:57)
You're usually like glaring at me from the corner.

Bob Smith (00:40:58 --> 00:40:59)
Who's that guy?

Dustin Grinnell (00:40:59 --> 00:41:00)
He tried to punch me one time, but that's okay.

Bob Smith (00:41:00 --> 00:41:02)
Yeah, missed. Well, I was trying to—

Dustin Grinnell (00:41:02 --> 00:41:03)
Only because I dodged him.

Bob Smith (00:41:03 --> 00:41:08)
I was trying to figure out like, okay, so my daughter's husband is your brother.

Dustin Grinnell (00:41:08 --> 00:41:09)
Right.

Bob Smith (00:41:09 --> 00:41:10)
So what do I call you?

Dustin Grinnell (00:41:11 --> 00:41:12)
Like, it's your son-in-law's brother.

Bob Smith (00:41:12 --> 00:41:16)
Son-in-law's brother. Yeah, but that's a long— couldn't you get a simpler word for that?

Dustin Grinnell (00:41:16 --> 00:41:17)
Just call me Awesome Dude.

Bob Smith (00:41:17 --> 00:41:18)
Yeah, I was thinking that one too.

Dustin Grinnell (00:41:18 --> 00:41:20)
Okay, that's cool. You can tattoo that on your arm.

Bob Smith (00:41:23 --> 00:41:23)
See?

Dustin Grinnell (00:41:23 --> 00:41:54)
Yeah. You know, I've done 8 of these episodes. I started this in February of 2023. One could say I'm doing it for myself in a way too, because I have a tendency to prepare and over-prepare, get wound pretty tight. You know, the last guy read his book twice. Had 30 questions for him, only hit like 15 or 20 or whatever. It's really regimented and kind of like high-strung about it. But I'm sort of just letting go right here with this episode. There's something interesting about that.

Bob Smith (00:41:54 --> 00:42:01)
You feel comfortable about doing it this way? Like, would you do this again? Or maybe it's too early to even tell?

Dustin Grinnell (00:42:01 --> 00:42:21)
Yeah, I would. I almost feel like it depends maybe on the guest. I guess if you're— talking about someone about their book or their movie or whatever, you probably want to like read it and watch their thing and come up with things. But there's something that's just a little bit more open and fluid and something nice about that.

Bob Smith (00:42:21 --> 00:42:30)
Yeah, most people that you interview or have on a podcast, they're promoting something. Yeah. You know, whether it's that band, the Q-Tip band, or a book. Right.

Dustin Grinnell (00:42:30 --> 00:42:33)
They would like to get more downloads or listeners or purchases. Yeah.

Bob Smith (00:42:33 --> 00:42:49)
Right. Which is fine. That's why I was kind of surprised when you picked up on this and like, "Hey, what are we going to talk about?" And your response was, "Nothing." Exactly. Which is, what does that mean? We could sit here and not say anything and that's whatever, but—

Dustin Grinnell (00:42:49 --> 00:42:52)
That would be saying something, wouldn't it? Saying nothing is saying something.

Bob Smith (00:42:52 --> 00:42:54)
Yeah, let's try it for a couple hours.

Dustin Grinnell (00:42:55 --> 00:42:59)
Dear audio editor, please delete the next 3 minutes.

Bob Smith (00:43:01 --> 00:43:01)
There you go.

Dustin Grinnell (00:43:01 --> 00:44:34)
But she actually said, no, I don't want to do that. I just want to interview like a 10-year-old, like some adolescent. I just want to dig into his life and see what it's all about. And I really took a lot of inspiration from that because she just— I think she reached out to her network and said, hey, does anyone have like an adolescent that I can interview and spend time with and write an article about? And someone said yes.

And Yeah, she hung out with this young boy and played video games with him and went to school with him and asked him about his life and what it's like to be, you know, a boy at that time and what— how he felt about becoming a man at some point. And it's like that the boy was like unfamous. He's just a kid. He's ordinary. And yet the article is almost profound.

Like, it, it was about things that were common to us all. You know, it wasn't Bruce Springsteen. And in this conversation, we've already talked about life and work and religion and the power of, like, laughing every day. And I knew that was gonna happen. So we can stop now.

This is over.

Bob Smith (00:44:37 --> 00:44:37)
Ah! Wah!

Dustin Grinnell (00:44:37 --> 00:44:37)
I don't know.

Bob Smith (00:44:38 --> 00:44:38)
I'm—

Dustin Grinnell (00:44:38 --> 00:44:43)
So what do you think about that? You know, you talk about nothing. You're really just talking about living.

Bob Smith (00:44:44 --> 00:47:06)
And I guess for me, it's just, every day's different. You know, you get up every day. I'm at least, I mean, as I get older, it's like, oh geez, I'm in pain here or whatever. And what do I want to do? But you got to make the most of every day.

You know, that's the way I look at it is you're only here for a short period of time. Are you making a difference? Are you not making a difference? It doesn't really matter. It depends on the person.

They just want, I think just everybody has a different idea of why they're here, you know, what they're gonna do for the day. Some people are more motivated than others depending on what it is. And again, I get back to where I'm at now is just, it's all about my, you know, my little ones and the grandchildren and my children. And I get motivated when I get all excited. Like yesterday I went up and spent some time with the two boys, you know, and they're very different from each other, but it was such, I felt so great when I was there and when I was leaving.

Now, not everybody has that experience and that's fine too, but yeah, I think you gotta find something that really makes you happy every day. Not that you have to be happy 24 hours a day. Nobody is in this kind of world, but I'm learning as I get older, socializing more with people, 'cause I'm not good at keeping friends for long periods of time. Mostly it's my fault. I like to be independent and I don't follow up with people once I've met them and we've spent some time together.

But as I get older, you know, like even yesterday, I went up to the clubhouse to get a flu shot and there was a few people over there. I only knew one person. We started having this conversation and it's like, wow, I just felt kind of nice to have some human contact, not physical contact, emotional contact. And you know, it's funny, when I was younger, believe it or not, I was kind of a shy kid. And as I grew up and got older and more of an adult, now I can't keep my mouth shut.

You know, it's almost trying to make that contact with people. For whatever reason. And I think that's just how I am today, I guess. Will that continue? I don't know.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:06 --> 00:47:13)
What's it like to get older? Like, what, you know, I get a sense that like I'm 40, just turned 40, you're 73, right?

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:13 --> 00:47:13)
I am.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:13 --> 00:47:26)
You've been on the planet longer, 33 years more than me. I feel like you deserve a certain amount of respect. Like you avoided accidents, you, you know, you lived, you didn't die. Right. There's a certain amount.

Bob Smith (00:47:26 --> 00:47:28)
I'm still here, yeah, hopefully. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:28 --> 00:47:33)
And you lived to 100. The kind of approach to life that you have.

Bob Smith (00:47:33 --> 00:47:34)
I don't know if I'm gonna live that long.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:34 --> 00:47:36)
Yeah, I give it like 74, 75.

Bob Smith (00:47:36 --> 00:47:43)
Yeah, another year or two. The way I look at my life is I'm a big golfer. I'm on the back nine of my life.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:44 --> 00:47:46)
Okay, so that's the metaphor, yeah.

Bob Smith (00:47:46 --> 00:47:51)
Yeah, I think I'm on about the 14th hole, which is, there's only 18 holes in a golf course.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:51 --> 00:47:52)
Last time I checked, yeah.

Bob Smith (00:47:52 --> 00:48:06)
The good thing is it's all backed up on the 15th tee. That forced them, they hit the balls in the water and in the woods. So it's slowing down. Hopefully that even though there's only 4 holes left, Shit, you could go— You could go for a while.

Dustin Grinnell (00:48:06 --> 00:48:15)
Yeah, you could go have a beer on 16 and hang out in there for a little while. So you're talking about kind of really like milking those last 4 holes.

Bob Smith (00:48:15 --> 00:48:24)
Yeah, I could let the group behind me go through us, say, "Go ahead, we're not in any hurry." Because at 18, I die. Yeah, that's it. There's no 19th hole.

Dustin Grinnell (00:48:26 --> 00:48:29)
Well, 19th hole is heaven, or probably, you know, whatever.

Bob Smith (00:48:29 --> 00:48:32)
Yes, yeah, maybe that is. Equivalent to maybe having 19th hole, I guess. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:48:32 --> 00:48:35)
So the, yeah, the 19th hole is like the clubhouse.

Bob Smith (00:48:35 --> 00:48:37)
It is. Yeah. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:48:37 --> 00:49:01)
Interesting. Yeah. Do you have any other metaphors for, you know, I, I think sometimes about metaphors for life, right? It's climbing a mountain, building a garden, Sisyphus, take pleasure in the monotony of the rolling the boulder. Just loving your destiny even though it's not perfect. There's so many metaphors. Do you have one?

Bob Smith (00:49:02 --> 00:49:15)
Well, no, but they look at, you asked me before, what's it feel like to be 73 or older? Up here in my head, it's like you think you're not 73.

Dustin Grinnell (00:49:15 --> 00:49:16)
It's a word.

Bob Smith (00:49:16 --> 00:49:22)
And you don't realize it till you start to do some time, as I'm getting older physically, sometimes it's like, Oh, shoot, I can't do this.

Dustin Grinnell (00:49:22 --> 00:49:26)
Do you feel like 27 or something mentally? What would you say? 35?

Bob Smith (00:49:26 --> 00:49:28)
I'm on the fourth hole.

Dustin Grinnell (00:49:28 --> 00:49:37)
Okay. Okay. So you feel that way, but like your mind sort of reminds you or your body reminds you that you're not, that you're still on the 14th hole.

Bob Smith (00:49:37 --> 00:49:49)
Yeah. For a few months, I was still in college. So doing these crazy little things. I was a, not a customer service rep. What do you call those people that you don't want to talk to.

Dustin Grinnell (00:49:49 --> 00:49:49)
Telemarketer.

Bob Smith (00:49:49 --> 00:50:16)
Telemarketer. And I was selling alarm systems, fire alarm systems, servicing the alarm systems and things of that nature. So I didn't like doing this. It was just, I needed some extra money to pay my little bills here and there. But then, you know, I learned a lot from that because when I got calls at home, telemarketers, I would do the same thing. I would ask them all kinds of questions, you know, and drive them nuts. Yeah, give me your name and, you know, You get nowhere. You get them to hang up, which is better than you hanging up.

Dustin Grinnell (00:50:17 --> 00:50:24)
But you are on the offensive. Like it gives you a sense of agency. Like, you know, yeah. And I do it all the time. I, you know, I mess with them.

Bob Smith (00:50:24 --> 00:50:38)
But sometimes I feel bad for them. 'Cause I was, I did that myself and I'm dealing with probably a young kid's first job or whatever. And, you know, I just start talking about nothing, about stupid stuff. And they just want to get the sale basically.

Dustin Grinnell (00:50:39 --> 00:50:46)
Right. You know, it's nice of you to have some empathy toward them, right? Because they're just doing their job, right?

Bob Smith (00:50:46 --> 00:50:46)
Right.

Dustin Grinnell (00:50:46 --> 00:51:31)
But, you know, maybe it goes back to what you said. They probably just need a joke to laugh. Because sometimes when I'm— if I'm in like a mood where I get a telemarketer calls me, I may feel a little hostile, and I'll be sarcastic toward them, and then they hang up and all the rest. But sometimes if I'm in a good mood and I get that call, I'll actually just be nice, right? And I think more times than not, I'm usually just nice.

I'm like, kind of like not interested, you know? I appreciate it. And sometimes I'll— if I'm really in a good mood, I'll make kind of a joke and they'll laugh and we'll be done. We'll go our separate ways. It's probably the better way to do it.

Bob Smith (00:51:31 --> 00:51:34)
Yeah, a lot has to do with your mood. Like, and I just—

Dustin Grinnell (00:51:34 --> 00:51:34)
I'm so bad.

Bob Smith (00:51:34 --> 00:52:01)
Mood, fart, I don't have time. Even now, what am I gonna say to this person? Well, who knows who it is, but it's more, I guess, troubling today. I mean, how many potential spams do you get a day? And most of them, and if something's that important, they're gonna leave a message, you know what I mean? So you just wait to see if there's voicemail. And if there isn't, is, then most of the time, 90% of the time, potential spam, that's it. I'll never hear from her again.

Dustin Grinnell (00:52:03 --> 00:52:14)
So what we're talking about before, like, metaphor that like undergirds your golden years, this metaphor of golfing. But you also, you know, you modified it too. You said, you know, you can slow down those last holes.

Bob Smith (00:52:14 --> 00:52:15)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Dustin Grinnell (00:52:16 --> 00:52:21)
Do you feel like the holes from like 1 to 10 just went by in a blur, or—

Bob Smith (00:52:21 --> 00:55:21)
There's always something else. You know, it's a good question because there's days that I say I'm fine with where I am right now. I think if I passed out tomorrow, I'd be fine. But again, I'd like to see, be around mostly to see some of my grandchildren grow up and see how they develop and so on and so forth. That would make me happy to be around for that.

But you want to be physically able to do stuff with them too. And if you get to a point in your life where you're not able to do some of the things you'd like to do, and that's going to be very discouraging. And depressing too. But right now I'm kind of like, kind of good where I am, you know? I mean, you know, it's funny, we moved to a 55+ community, my wife and I, which I never thought I'd be one to do that.

But now I'm kind of happy that I am because it's good and bad. You're surrounded by a lot of people your own age. So you have something in common. People are extremely nice to each other. Most people, are retired now and they're experienced in their life and they've, some of them are active, some of them aren't.

And that's a good thing. And you become friends easy enough with some of these people. And it's different from living in a neighborhood or a community where you meet people and then you don't see them that often. I see them all the time, some more than others, depending what activities I'm involved in. There's a big clubhouse and you're running into them all the time, which is kind of cool.

The downside is, and this has happened, we've only been there, we're 2 years next month, you become friends with people there and you have a connection and then they pass away. In my part of 18 houses, we've had 3 people already pass away. Last week, a good friend of mine, he sat next to me while we played poker, never serious, either one of us. Every time I see him at the clubhouse or at the mail center, we're getting our mail, We have something funny to say and we just get it. We get each other.

And he passed away 2 days ago. He had a seizure. He was 87 years old. He's been sick for about a month, but it was still kind of hurtful and surprise. You know, I know he's probably in a better place now because he was probably struggling that last month.

But yeah, that's what's difficult, seeing people that you meet, friends with. And then I, I'm getting more information from people I grew up with. One of my brothers is sometimes good about looking at the obituaries and, "Oh, so-and-so passed away." It may be someone I went to school with or whatever. So everybody has their time. When that is, who knows?

Dustin Grinnell (00:55:22 --> 00:56:22)
How do you manage that inevitability? Because I was thinking that when you're describing your 55-year-old community, it sounded a little bit like college. You know, it was this camaraderie, you see your friends around, but that's where the commonalities stop, because you're in a different phase of life. You're in the older years, you know? And the inevitability is we get on the stage and play our part and we go off the stage and that's how it goes.

I'm only 40 and I went to my 20th year reunion last summer and 2 of my classmates had passed away. 2 close friends, actually. And to me, you know, my late 30s, it was like unimaginable. You know, I'm supposed to be in a youthful— supposed to still be around statistically. But that's not the case, like, in your community.

Bob Smith (00:56:23 --> 00:59:10)
It might take a while. There's one gentleman in our community, poor guy, moved there shortly after, him and his wife, after we moved in there. So he's only been there, no, not even 2 years. And he was healthy when he got there, but he got cancer and lost a lot of weight, went downhill and hardly ever was out. So you knew that he was gonna go sooner than some others 'cause nothing was going in his direction.

His wife called me the other day before when he was alive, asked me to come over 'cause he fell out of his wheelchair and couldn't get up and she couldn't lift him. So I went over there and I couldn't believe he was so fragile. It was kind of like my dad. My dad died at 66 from bone cancer. At the end, he's like 80 pounds.

So we put him back in the wheelchair and he's probably been on some pain medication. He goes, "Hey, thanks for the ride," you know, things like that. But I knew that that was when he passed away. It's still sad, but you know, he was in a lot of pain. It was probably, You know, you feel that it's better than being here in pain.

But then what really is difficult when somebody really, you don't expect it and they pass away. And as time goes on, you're hopefully able to get over it. But that's, I think, more difficult obviously than somebody who's been in pain or sick for a while. And when I run into all kinds of different people, some are very active and some, are not. And one guy in particular, we get together, 4 of us, to watch the Pats games together.

In my pod, there's 4 of us. And one poor guy, he tries his best. We take turns, I should say, at each person's house. Okay, you're going to host this week. And we're not far from each other, but 2 of us have to go over to his house if he's coming to my house and help him because he's big, he's heavy.

And we've even said to each other, if he falls, We gotta call the EMTs. We won't be able to pick this guy up. So to me, you know, he's into the past games. He likes watching the Celtics games and he's always very positive and stuff. But the difficult thing is when we leave and he's home by himself, you know, how does his day go?

And there's a guy I used to play poker with. Well, I still play with him here and there. He's struggling with the cane and bent over and he's in every poker game that's up at the clubhouse. They have one almost every day. But that's what he does for enjoyment because he can't do a lot of other things.

And he was telling me the other day, Bob was like, you know, it's, it's kind of, I'm very lonely when I'm home, you know? And that's, those are the people that you start to think and worry about. And when they go away, pass away, you know, maybe it's sometimes not a better thing, but their life is not how it used to be. And sometimes I think of that about myself. It's like, okay, 73, you know, my mind says I'm only 27 or whatever.

Dustin Grinnell (00:59:10 --> 00:59:12)
Yeah, you were doing push-ups in the parking lot.

Bob Smith (00:59:13 --> 00:59:14)
Yeah, two.

Dustin Grinnell (00:59:14 --> 00:59:24)
Yeah, then you threw up and it was— yeah, we had to take care of that messy scene out there. Everyone has their own preparatory ritual for a podcast appearance, so—

Bob Smith (00:59:24 --> 00:59:30)
yes. Yeah, well, this was my first one, so I didn't know what to do, right? Hey, push-ups, why not?

Dustin Grinnell (00:59:30 --> 00:59:33)
No, I understood it was like, uh, you know, some getting the nerves out.

Bob Smith (00:59:33 --> 00:59:36)
Yeah. What did you do to prepare? What kind of exercise, if any?

Dustin Grinnell (00:59:36 --> 00:59:46)
Yeah, I— what did I do? Not— I was working this morning. Yeah, I wasn't preparing. You know what I was trying to do? I was actively trying not to prepare.

Bob Smith (00:59:46 --> 00:59:47)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:59:47 --> 00:59:56)
Because you gave me some stuff to read, and I said, "I'm not going to read. I want to read it. I want to read it just out of respect." But I didn't because I wanted to stay committed to the purpose of the show.

Bob Smith (00:59:56 --> 01:00:10)
Yeah. I know you're very committed to this because I had other stuff to send you, and you almost kind of, "No, that's okay." Well, I didn't have to send back a picture picture of my middle finger. I'm gonna savor that, put it in my, uh, pocket over here.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:10 --> 01:00:11)
You should make a t-shirt out of it.

Bob Smith (01:00:11 --> 01:00:12)
There you go.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:12 --> 01:00:13)
There, for Thanksgiving.

Bob Smith (01:00:13 --> 01:00:16)
But if I did that, that finger would be looking at you, not me.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:16 --> 01:00:19)
Oh, that's a good point. I kind of, kind of screwed myself there.

Bob Smith (01:00:19 --> 01:00:20)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:20 --> 01:00:55)
So yeah, I take major granted— take for granted mobility and health and just energy. And like, the idea of being so large that I need help to get out of my chair, that I'm sort of like glued to a couch or something like that, that's devastating, you know? To lose autonomy, to lose agency in the world, and to have to depend on friends and family to be moved around. I mean, boy, we take a lot for granted, don't we?

Bob Smith (01:00:56 --> 01:00:58)
You gotta have like a plan B in life.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:58 --> 01:00:59)
Meaning?

Bob Smith (01:00:59 --> 01:01:06)
Meaning like if you get to that point or you think about it could get to that point, not people dwelling this to think about it, what are you gonna do about it?

Dustin Grinnell (01:01:06 --> 01:01:06)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (01:01:06 --> 01:01:27)
I tell my kids, like, yeah, young, you gotta, you know, whatever it's, you know, your job or whatever, think about a plan B just in case because you don't wanna just get so depressed over that plan A didn't work out. Now what that is is different for different people. And I think as you get older, you don't know what's going to fall apart. It could be up here. I'm pointing to my brain.

Dustin Grinnell (01:01:28 --> 01:01:28)
Right.

Bob Smith (01:01:28 --> 01:01:32)
Who would want to be having to rely on other people just to get through a day?

Dustin Grinnell (01:01:32 --> 01:01:45)
Yeah. I mean, what do they say? Like, life happens when you're busy making plans. You know, it's like you've got your plan and you know what you want to do. And then, man, just life throws you a curveball.

Bob Smith (01:01:45 --> 01:01:46)
Yeah. Out of nowhere.

Dustin Grinnell (01:01:46 --> 01:01:48)
Could be a financial problem, a health problem. Could be.

Bob Smith (01:01:49 --> 01:01:50)
Well, there's hills and valleys.

Dustin Grinnell (01:01:50 --> 01:01:55)
Hills and valleys, yeah. What's a valley you were in and how'd you get out?

Bob Smith (01:01:55 --> 01:01:57)
Oh, geez, so many.

Dustin Grinnell (01:01:58 --> 01:01:59)
A lot of valleys.

Bob Smith (01:01:59 --> 01:02:00)
A lot of valleys.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:00 --> 01:02:02)
A lot of hills. A lot of summits too, though.

Bob Smith (01:02:03 --> 01:02:11)
Oh, gee, I don't have that many. Been pretty good about things that have been— I don't really dwell on that, I guess. That's why it's hard to think of one.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:11 --> 01:02:18)
That's how my dad would say the same thing. Yeah, he's like, I don't know. Shit happens, but, you know, I don't sit there and think about it.

Bob Smith (01:02:18 --> 01:02:18)
No.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:18 --> 01:02:18)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (01:02:19 --> 01:02:21)
Oh, because you just get depressed and life goes on.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:21 --> 01:02:31)
But you talked about, you know, if you feel like crying, cry. So, like, you know, you kind of have that philosophy, like, let it go through you and let it release something.

Bob Smith (01:02:32 --> 01:02:32)
Right.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:32 --> 01:02:35)
Let it dislodge. So you feel that way at least.

Bob Smith (01:02:35 --> 01:02:36)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:36 --> 01:02:40)
You don't deny bad feelings. You let them come and you let them go through.

Bob Smith (01:02:41 --> 01:03:23)
Right, I try to find a distraction sometimes. You know, put on some music, read a book, an activity. You know, I mentioned like golf again. That's one of those things I really enjoy doing. I feel like the environment, grew up playing caddy as a kid, but now I'm not able to play golf as much. And so that's a valley for me to be beautiful days And I joined a golf league where I live but couldn't play. I played one day and then couldn't play for 3 because I couldn't get out of bed. I was in so much pain. So it's like, okay, do I continue to do this or find something else that I can do that would give me just as much enjoyment? That's what you have to do.

Dustin Grinnell (01:03:23 --> 01:03:24)
Like a plan B?

Bob Smith (01:03:24 --> 01:03:25)
A plan B.

Dustin Grinnell (01:03:25 --> 01:03:26)
So would that be swimming or—

Bob Smith (01:03:26 --> 01:04:00)
My plan B was taking this drawing class. I have no skill, I don't think, in that at all. And I've enjoyed it because I'm sitting down in a room with other people, I mean, somewhat artistic, you know. Other things I've done to get out of that depression, that depression valley, is I love the beach. You'd be just walking up and down on the sand and collecting shells and taking a dip in the ocean. It's refreshing to me. No, I'm not gonna sit around and dwell on, oh, poor me, Bob, blah, blah, blah. You know, that's all made up.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:00 --> 01:04:00)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (01:04:00 --> 01:04:04)
But you know, there's some— sometimes it's easier than others. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:04 --> 01:04:04)
On the day.

Bob Smith (01:04:04 --> 01:04:04)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:04 --> 01:04:10)
I'd like to see some of your drawings sometime. I'll buy one. How much do you think they would cost?

Bob Smith (01:04:10 --> 01:04:11)
Oh boy.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:11 --> 01:04:12)
Yeah.

Bob Smith (01:04:12 --> 01:04:13)
I don't think you could afford it.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:14 --> 01:04:23)
Um, it's your first podcast. This is my eighth. So it's not like, oh, this is, you know, you're talking to anybody who's experienced, but it's a different experience podcast for you.

Bob Smith (01:04:23 --> 01:04:27)
This isn't something where you had prepared questions and And whatever.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:27 --> 01:04:31)
What do you think it'll be like listening to yourself talk about yourself?

Bob Smith (01:04:31 --> 01:04:32)
Probably won't like it.

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:32 --> 01:04:35)
Why? Because you don't like the sound of your voice or you don't want to face it?

Bob Smith (01:04:35 --> 01:04:58)
Yeah, everything. Maybe the sound of the voice. Maybe, I don't know. I forget what I said. I mean, everything I said was true, but it's really weird to like, you have a question on something that you don't have a lot of time to dwell on and think to give a decent answer. So I think sometimes, Maybe when I listen to it back, I'll go like, "Oh, is that me?

Dustin Grinnell (01:04:58 --> 01:05:00)
Did I say that?" Yeah, you're just going off the cuff.

Bob Smith (01:05:00 --> 01:05:01)
Yeah, yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:05:01 --> 01:05:21)
You're going off the cuff about things that are kind of big questions sometimes. We're talking about death and metaphors for life and stuff. Maybe we just don't get a lot of chances to actually talk like that. Seems a little strange. Like if we were at Thanksgiving and I was like, "Bob, what's your metaphor for life?" You'd be like, "Come on, man, we're just hanging out." Yeah, and it's on a microphone, which means you have to play back.

Bob Smith (01:05:23 --> 01:05:39)
With friends or at a party and stuff, you do say things off the top of your head, which might be funny or maybe not or whatever, you're having a conversation. But it's different when you have a microphone here and there's a little more stress. It's higher. Yeah, what am I— Yeah, exactly.

Dustin Grinnell (01:05:39 --> 01:06:00)
It's because you know that there's an audience. It's not just you and I, that's an illusion. There's a performative element here. When you answer the question, you're not just answering the question for me, you're answering it for, I don't know, so far like a few hundred people or whatever may listen to it. That's on your consciousness. Have you had that experience before? It's kind of like being in public.

Bob Smith (01:06:00 --> 01:06:13)
But you're usually in public, you're not speaking about yourself. Like when I was working, they had Toastmasters for people who want, because you need to go and make a presentation. It was like a training. You didn't have to.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:13 --> 01:06:14)
For public speaking.

Bob Smith (01:06:14 --> 01:06:28)
Yeah, so you feel more comfortable and start off with an icebreaker. You pick a subject or you can talk a little bit about yourself. That's probably the last time I had an experience of maybe saying something about yourself, but it's like 5 minutes. This is like over an hour.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:28 --> 01:06:31)
75 minutes. It's like nap time after this.

Bob Smith (01:06:32 --> 01:06:32)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:32 --> 01:06:34)
We're going to have an espresso or something.

Bob Smith (01:06:34 --> 01:06:35)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:35 --> 01:06:41)
Well, it's an endurance event. Do you ever feel like you're in conversation with someone for 75 minutes for God's sake?

Bob Smith (01:06:41 --> 01:06:41)
How long did it take?

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:41 --> 01:06:43)
You couldn't take a break. I was just on you the whole time.

Bob Smith (01:06:43 --> 01:06:47)
Yeah, no, yeah. I'm not ever going to do this again.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:47 --> 01:06:48)
This is it. First, last.

Bob Smith (01:06:49 --> 01:06:53)
I don't know, when we see each other at the next gathering, it'll be kind of funny and different.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:53 --> 01:06:56)
We could play it in the background as like a screensaver.

Bob Smith (01:06:56 --> 01:06:56)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:06:56 --> 01:06:59)
You know, just listen, gather around everybody.

Bob Smith (01:06:59 --> 01:07:07)
Yeah. See, you know a lot more about me, but I didn't get— I don't know a lot more about you. Maybe I should do a podcast. I'll be answering, asking the questions.

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:07 --> 01:07:12)
You know what, man? All you have to do is go online. To this place and just book a studio.

Bob Smith (01:07:12 --> 01:07:13)
Is that how it works?

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:13 --> 01:07:17)
And then just come in, we'll do it and go around, do the other thing. I'll be glad to do that.

Bob Smith (01:07:17 --> 01:07:18)
Okay. That sounds good.

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:18 --> 01:07:21)
And you can prepare questions if you want, or you can do it like I did. It's your show.

Bob Smith (01:07:22 --> 01:07:24)
I'll prepare questions, but you won't even know what the questions are.

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:24 --> 01:07:29)
I want you to just hit me with a sledgehammer. Ask me the hardest hitting questions you can think of.

Bob Smith (01:07:29 --> 01:07:30)
Would you enjoy that?

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:31 --> 01:07:33)
I've done plenty of podcasts as a guest.

Bob Smith (01:07:33 --> 01:07:34)
Oh, you have?

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:34 --> 01:07:35)
I write and publish stuff.

Bob Smith (01:07:35 --> 01:07:37)
We talked about your books and stuff.

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:37 --> 01:07:38)
That's true.

Bob Smith (01:07:38 --> 01:07:39)
I got a book, you know, whatever.

Dustin Grinnell (01:07:39 --> 01:07:51)
Yeah, I hate it. No, I gotta do it though. So it is what it is. Set it up. Let's do it. We can even bring in more people. Look, there's 4 mics here. We can bring in other people. So just think about it. Maybe we'll be co-hosts someday. Who knows?

Bob Smith (01:07:51 --> 01:08:18)
Yeah, maybe. You know, my brother and I, my older brother and I, were thinking about doing a podcast, probably half kiddingly. But when we lived down at the Cape, we would go out to breakfast every, I think every Wednesday, once a week. And one year In the, I don't know how long I was down there for, maybe 4 years, but maybe didn't do it for 4 years. We hit about 40, almost 40 different diners in that period of time. And it was like, we should put a book together, you know, and like rate these different places and maybe do a podcast. We're half kidding, but.

Dustin Grinnell (01:08:18 --> 01:08:19)
[Speaker] That'd be awesome.

Bob Smith (01:08:19 --> 01:08:20)
[Speaker] Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:08:20 --> 01:08:23)
[Speaker] Or you can do just a blog post or something like that. [Speaker] A what? [Speaker] Like a blog post.

Bob Smith (01:08:23 --> 01:08:23)
[Speaker] Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (01:08:23 --> 01:08:45)
[Speaker] Sort of a travel guide of some kind. [Speaker] Yeah. [Speaker] Well, we are at the end of our, time. Oh, and yeah, it's, uh, it's been a real pleasure. I feel like we went in with a concept that was risky, could have been just totally boring and meandering and who knows, but we, we got into some stuff that was pretty interesting. And, uh, you know, I thank you for coming to talk. I appreciated it.

Bob Smith (01:08:45 --> 01:08:47)
Well, thank you for inviting me.

Dustin Grinnell (01:08:49 --> 01:08:57)
Thanks for listening to this episode of Curiously. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Bob. Stay tuned for more conversations with people I meet along the way.