The Bible, Marathon Running & Unexpected Healing: Can Ancient Texts Heal Modern Wounds?

Dustin Grinnell (00:00:00 --> 00:02:18)
I'm Dustin Brunel, and this is Curiously.

To start Season 2, I wanted to do something a bit different. All of the episodes in the first season were interview-based, but in this episode, I wanted to tell more of a story in the vein of This American Life or Radiolab. Several weeks ago, I had asked my designer, Caitlin Gilbert, who I've been working with in a freelance capacity for 4 years, to make some updates to my website. One of One of the updates was to post a podcast appearance I'd made to talk about my new book, The Healing Book. Caitlin happened to listen to the interview, and it resonated with her so much that she wanted to share her story with me.

She wrote in an email, "I see some parallels in our stories that are too striking to pass up." And hey, now you'll know a bit more about the person behind the work. In her email, Caitlin recounted a journey that began with her parents' unexpected divorce in 2017, leading to a phase of poor decision-making. After that, during the start of the pandemic in 2020, she chose to leave her comfortable corporate job to establish her own freelance design and web development business. Throughout these experiences, she emphasized her daily reading of the Bible for solace, guidance, and a renewed perspective on life. She credited the Bible with being instrumental in her healing process.

Keelan's story piqued my curiosity. I'm a non-religious person, but you could say I'm reasonably spiritual. And open to explanations that might go beyond our current understanding of the universe or don't fit into our rational, scientific perspective. I've never read the Bible, but I've always wondered what wisdom was locked away in the text. I wanted to know what Caitlin found in her daily readings and how it helped her heal from emotional wounds and change her life for the better.

When I asked Caitlin if she'd be willing to tell her story on the podcast, she agreed. She'd heard once that wisdom was like a river, and each person holds a cup of water from that river. When we learn about other people's experiences, we drink that cup of water and are refreshed. And with that, I bring you Caitlin's cup of wisdom.

Dustin Grinnell (00:02:20 --> 00:02:48)
So I really want to just start at the beginning of what you shared with me. So you talked about 2020 and leaving your job, but you backed up to 2017 and when your parents decided to get divorced. By the way, I'm also— my parents also divorced. I was quite young, so I understand the impact of it in a different way, but I was hoping you could just kind of bring me back to that place. Like, tell me what happened and how you were feeling at the time.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:02:48 --> 00:05:37)
It was probably the hardest year of my life thus far. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. I grew up in a small family. I just have one brother and my parents are hardworking. Blue-collar parents.

Like, my dad's a truck driver, my mom a medical assistant. My family really valued work and education. So like, I knew from a young age, like, I just needed to work hard and go to a good college. My parents didn't have like those opportunities to go to college. And so everything worked really well.

Like, at one point we had a house and a pool and a dog. And everything seemed pretty normal. We had fun together and plenty of barbecues and vacations. And I look back at my childhood and there were some, like, difficult moments, but I'd say, like, overall it was positive. And I guess I didn't realize that there were some cracks in the foundation of our family that didn't really start to surface until around the time my brother and I left for college.

So I left for college 2011, graduated 2015, and my parents officially separated 2017. I mean, they divorced 2018. Anyway, but yeah, it came as a shock when I first learned because as a 24-year-old, you're kind of like starting your life and you're becoming an adult. And I just wouldn't have ever imagined my parents getting separated and I guess it was also at a time that I felt like I had reached the goals like they had set out for me, but it still wasn't feeling like enough. So I kind of had a bit of my own discontent that I was working through personally.

But in the background, like my parents are also going through the end of our household. And so while I was starting to question, is there more to just going to school and work and a career? This place I would have gone to, like my parents, with my questions and for support was starting to crumble. So it was suddenly like my launchpad was floating away. And so all these values we had as a family of hard work and education, et cetera, it clearly at this point in 2017 didn't mean we all had it figured out.

So I'm feeling lost, I'm feeling confused and angry and just really tired. Retired at the age of 24. And yeah, I felt like I had kind of amounted to nothing.

Dustin Grinnell (00:05:39 --> 00:05:54)
So is it safe to say, like, with the disintegration of your parents' marriage, you kind of like lost the values that undergirded your own life? Like, what do you think it was about your parents separating that impacted you so deeply at an emotional level?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:05:54 --> 00:06:53)
It was like two things going on at the same time. So I was post-college and already feeling a bit discontent with life, just working this 9 to 5 and like I had my degree and I'm like, okay, like what else do I do? Like what's next? It was almost like this finish line had been set up for me, but I was only 24 and I didn't have a framework for like how to navigate the rest of life. And I guess at the same time, yeah, like my parents, the separation and their divorce was almost like this fracturing of this framework for life that I had really invested myself into and I guess even achieved. And so yeah, I guess it was just like this wake-up call, like maybe there's more wisdom to be learned about life cuz it felt like something else was missing, right? Cuz it didn't hold their marriage together either.

Dustin Grinnell (00:06:54 --> 00:07:04)
Right. It's almost like the values that they had used in their life and to raise you, it felt like it validated with their separation. Like it's like it kind of threw the book out a little bit.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:07:05 --> 00:07:22)
Right, right. Exactly. It was kind of like you're a child almost like innocently realizing that this framework you grew up with might not be perfect. It might not end in perfect happiness. Because I was seeing that our family was kind of falling apart.

Dustin Grinnell (00:07:24 --> 00:07:36)
The separation of Caitlin's parents led her to question the values instilled in her when she was young. This period of uncertainty led her to develop bad habits and make decisions that she didn't feel were good for her.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:07:36 --> 00:09:26)
Yeah, when I graduated college in 2015, I was burnt out. I'd worked really, really hard in high school and I had gotten like a full scholarship and I always say like, I'm not naturally smart. I just have a good work ethic. So I think because I worked so hard, I just didn't know how to have fun really. So when I got to college, it was quite confusing to see what people did for fun.

I guess the biggest outlet to deal with my stress at the time was just to go out drinking and you know, go to like the pubs around college and things like that and the college parties. And so when I finished college, that was still really the only thing I knew to do for fun. And so yeah, it's like a journey to this low place because yeah, after work you just go to happy hours and things like that. And I guess I was just starting to drink way too much. I was like getting into relationships that weren't healthy, like I was like basing a relationship based on like how much fun I could think I could have with this person.

Next I know, I'm kind of already in this shallow place when my parents announce that they're separating and divorcing. And so that was my low place. It was just a place of feeling lost, of feeling like I needed to just drink to have fun. Party to have fun and date whoever I wanted just based on this idea of fun. Really probably just sad and angry and using alcohol to like numb those feelings.

Dustin Grinnell (00:09:27 --> 00:09:37)
Caitlin felt like she needed healing. She decided that running would give her more discipline and train her body. Eventually, she decided to train for the New York City Marathon.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:09:37 --> 00:11:10)
But I guess having that treadmill mentality for most of my life and then post-college feeling like I jumped off the treadmill and I had nothing to work for or study for. I just felt very undisciplined. So the one thing I could think of to like try to get me back into like a disciplined routine is to run. And I enjoyed it. In the beginning, I actually didn't.

But the cool thing about living in New York City is you always see the New York City Marathon. And since I'm like in Brooklyn, as young as I can remember, I always saw the marathon going on in my neighborhood. And so I just remember walking around the neighborhood in November of 2016 and seeing the marathon going on and being like, I think I can do this. So yeah, 2017, although I was still like partying and doing these things, I did start running a bit and doing those New York Road Runner races. You have to do like 9 races to qualify for the marathon.

Dustin Grinnell (00:11:11 --> 00:11:21)
Kaitlyn's running routine gave her discipline and structure and was the physical aspect of her healing. But there was also a spiritual aspect to her healing.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:11:23 --> 00:12:32)
Early 2018, I bought a Bible. I think I was coming home from work and I knew where the stop was to go to Barnes Noble, and I just, like, impulsively got off. The train and went to Barnes Noble and bought a $15 Bible. And I started reading it and it'd be the Bible that I read for, like, I kept it for 3 years until the edges got dog-eared and I'd flip through the pages too many times. But I guess I'll preface this by saying that I, I knew about the Bible as a kid.

I had some experience with church. There were periods in my childhood where my parents would go to church. But I think up until this point, 2018, I felt the Bible was rules and laws. So when I'd party and get drunk, I knew the Bible probably had things to say about it, but I wasn't angry anymore. I think I was just desperate for something new.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:32 --> 00:12:48)
So what was resonating so strongly in the pages that didn't resonate with you in childhood? So you're 25 now, and you know, you're interacting with the text differently. Like, what was different? What wisdom were you finding, like, in the pages?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:12:48 --> 00:16:10)
So it wasn't just like reading the Bible like it was a novel, but when I would journal, I would just reflect on certain memories or experiences and how they made me feel and how I was feeling about myself and When I would also read the Bible, there were these verses like, "A dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly." This one really struck out to me because I was like, whoa, like it just seems so real. It's so gross at the same time. Like it surprised me that a verse like that would be in the Bible. But then I like understood it because I remember growing up, like my dog would throw up and then go back and eat his vomit and I would have to stop him from eating his vomit. And so I was like, wow, like this really seems to connect to real life.

Like it's very descriptive of what happens in life. And then I started to reflect it back to myself where I was like, I have countless memories of doing things over and over again that don't satisfy me, that don't make me feel more loved or comforted, but I'll do them again and again and I'll feel terrible afterwards. The Bible started to speak truth to me like that. Like, I know humans, like I know this world. And another verse, I guess you can contrast with this kind of gross verse, is, "You keep track of all my sorrows.

You've collected all my tears in your bottle. You have recorded each one in your book." And I guess it's paired with, like, these really comforting verses. So I'm getting a lot of truth, but then I felt like I was being comforted. So it helped me realize that when I was alone, when I was crying, when I was struggling, when I felt, like, totally isolated in my situation and in my pain, that there was a God who sees my tears and knows my sadness. And even knows these momentary things like tears.

Dustin Grinnell (00:16:10 --> 00:16:30)
Kaitlyn continued reading the Bible every day, finding truth and comfort in its pages. The routine led to positive changes in her life. She began giving up bad habits, and she found a church that gave her community. She replaced the values she had lost from her parents' divorce with new ones she had been reading about and discussing at church.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:16:30 --> 00:18:05)
So meeting other people who were believers and— Like a community. Yeah, like a community. And so I stopped drinking intensely. To the point where I would be drunk or like couldn't remember things the next day. I think I just like got so sick of it.

I was like, I am getting nothing from this. Like it only causes me pain. And that paired with what I was like reading in the Bible helped me to have, I guess, the ability to stop doing that and change in more dramatic ways. But I started to gain a new framework for life. And new values too.

And so I think previously I put a lot of my values into education and money, and I started to realize that those things are like shakable. So like they're here one day, gone the other. Even putting my value into like what clothes I wear, which is super fleeting, right? Because something's in style one year and not in style the other. And so I started to realize, like, I needed to reexamine my values.

Dustin Grinnell (00:18:05 --> 00:18:14)
As someone who's never read the Bible or gone to church other than a few times when I was a kid, I wanted to know what values Kaitlyn was discovering in the text.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:18:14 --> 00:20:39)
And so it's this story of sacrifice. Jesus was His perfect Son who knew no sin. And I guess the thing is, like, yeah, this word sin is complicated, but it's what makes us broken. I had felt, I guess at the age of 24, I realized like I was broken, that I wasn't inherently a perfect person, that I had like inclinations towards bad things, even to do bad towards myself and to, like, not be the greatest person to other people either. So, like, I've realized, like, I wasn't inherently kind or compassionate.

Like, I really had to work to be those things. And so I guess the Bible is this narrative of realizing, like, our humanity is not perfect. It is broken. And therefore, there's this God who is perfect, but he still loves us. We are his children.

And so the Bible is just countless stories of people's brokenness and like the things they get into, like, like making mistakes over and over again, kind of just like children do. But God still loving them like passionately and fiercely. And His ultimate act of showing that He loves us was to send Jesus to die for us on the cross so that we could be reunited with Him in eternity in heaven. And what that means for us on earth, He'll help us here. Like, He'll heal our hurts, right?

Dustin Grinnell (00:20:40 --> 00:20:53)
February 2020, obviously like a big time in the world for obvious reasons, but like you left the comfort of safety. I know that feeling. What was it like to kind of flush some of your finance background? Put me in that place.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:20:53 --> 00:24:26)
Up until this point, I'd always chosen my work or my career based on what would make me the most money so I could just feel the most secure in life. So like I studied finance in college, but throughout school hated math. So I wasn't making my life decisions on like my skills or my interests or anything like that. But in 2020, I started to ask myself what I wanted to do because I was working at a company that had to do with like online ordering for fast food. But I was like, I don't even eat fast food.

I felt like my personality or myself as a person was not tied whatsoever with what I was doing for work. And thankfully, what I did appreciate about that job was it moved me from finance into tech. So I did like tech and like I thought engineers were pretty cool. So I was like, yeah, I'll go into the tech industry. And I, I did work with some like designers and front-end engineers and I was like, I think the creative part of the job was really speaking to me.

So yeah, I had these thoughts about work and how did I get to the decision of like basically quitting my job. I told myself in 2019 I would have a completely boring year, meaning like all I wanted to do was not shake the boat too much, right? Like I had this new framework for life and I just wanted to continue to learn about it and read about it and pray about it and meet others like in my community that kind of live it and see how they live. But by January of 2020, I think I was ready to do it, right? It was the start of a new year.

I'd found a good coding bootcamp that I could join and, and learn from. And I guess what ultimately gave me this confidence was also just feeling like this invitation from God to redefine work. Having a job just based on financial security was based on my old framework for life. And now that I have this new framework for life, I felt God was challenging me to kind of take this step, right? To like use my faith in him to take this risk and quit.

And so I didn't do that just like jumping blind. Like I had a plan and my plan was to do web development. And so I did. And it felt like it was perfect timing in a lot of ways because I, Quit February of 2020 and March of 2020, like you said, the world shuts down and everybody's working from home. And I don't feel like FOMO at all because here I am just like at home too, kind of working on these new skills and like this new, I guess, pathway for life and for work.

Dustin Grinnell (00:24:26 --> 00:24:46)
What did it feel like to do those first set some jobs, web development, design, you were learning a new set of skills. Did you feel like that you were on a new, more authentic path? Did you feel like you weren't sure yet, but feeling maybe enthusiastic at the same time? Like, what did it feel like to do those first jobs?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:24:46 --> 00:26:10)
So it wasn't an incredibly long bootcamp. It was like an intense 2 months, and I would be left afterwards with this bulging question mark of what do I do? And so a lot of my classmates were going to work for Google and going to work for, you know, like the big tech companies. And I considered it. I felt like if I were to go down that route, it wouldn't be any different than working for JPMorgan Chase or, you know, these other companies that I had worked for.

And so I was like, no, I'm not gonna be like the dog that returns to its vomit. I am going to see what I else I can do. And so that's when I came across freelancing and it was the best way I think for me to just, I had this new skillset and I wanted to start using it. And it was nerve-wracking because I've never done freelancing before or supported myself on freelancing. So I've always been used to having a salary and health insurance and all these things, but I signed up to Upwork and yeah, we put feelers out and you ended up being my first client.

Dustin Grinnell (00:26:10 --> 00:26:34)
Not sure. The project I'd hired Katelyn for was to build a landing page for my novel, The Empathy Academy. When I saw her proposal on Upwork, I realized that she might not have had the experience other designers had, but what she lacked in experience, she made up for in passion, strong technical aptitude, and great taste. That was her first job on her new journey.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:26:34 --> 00:27:22)
And Upwork is so interesting, right? You just put a feeler out and see if the client might be interested in talking. I started simple, kind of like you said, it was just a landing page. And yeah, I, I guess doing your project, doing your, that landing page, it just gave me the confidence that I could do this, that I'd meet really cool people along the way. And it was really perfect because I mean, you ended up being super thoughtful and helpful to work with. And ever since I've had you as a client, I've been like, none of my clients are as good as Dustin. But, uh, I probably should say down a podcast, but you, you set the bar high for, uh, like a great client to work with.

Dustin Grinnell (00:27:22 --> 00:29:37)
I guess I've always been good at creative direction. So I think any designer or writer like that's working at a commercial capacity, they need direction. They need to know what the client wants and they need to be able to explain that, uh, and be able to like respond to each iteration with more direct feedback and to be more specific and to provide models and to be like encouraging and not like overly critical about it and to kind of feel your way through the project together. It's a true collaboration. So yeah, I think that's my approach to it.

And I just felt like, you know, when you built that landing page, that was not a going through the motions project. I could tell like you got after it and and you were using like this parallax effect and you were experimenting and, you know, I had this sense that I should be paying you like multiple times more for this project, but I just didn't have it at the time. But it's nice to be able to actually reflect on it, you know? Yeah, it is. And then, you know, I live a creative life and I write fiction and nonfiction and lots of other things and like basically You have been there for any design work I've ever wanted.

So like building my website and doing marketing collateral for books and things like that. It's like, I started to think like, what would my online presence be without Caitlin? You know, we are two sides of the same coin, you know? So yeah, I just think the one thing that I find in your work, you know, besides just the kind of like technical imagination that you have You know, because without the technical, you really can't realize your visions. So you're like technically very astute and like, it seems like technically curious.

So you're like always willing to like dig in and crack the case. But like, it's the beauty, I guess, the taste that I respond to. It's just like, yes, like that's very beautiful. You do very beautiful things and that you just can't, that's just who you are. It's an expression of your creativity and like, that's what I really love about your works the most.

Caitlin Gilbert (00:29:37 --> 00:29:38)
Wow. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:29:38 --> 00:30:19)
Thank you for that. So I'm a very secular person. I come to the world with a very like scientific perspective and I don't like dismiss like the supernatural, paranormal, mystical, but I also don't readily adopt it. So I had this kind of like doubtful agnostic, I'm just not really sure what's going on cuz we don't have the data type of perspective. What do you say to someone who may be like non-religious or like overtly atheist to like receiving wisdom, to being open to receiving wisdom from spiritual texts like the Bible?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:30:19 --> 00:31:18)
Is it history? Is it science? Is it a problem with religion or religious people? Is it just like a lack of curiosity? I think the Bible can like take those questions.

It's just a matter of how much I think each individual is willing to go on that journey, because that's what it is at the end of the day. It's this spiritual journey that you go on. And for me, I had to reach just like a desperate point in my life to go on that journey. And so it can take your questions on. I think each person just has to be in a place where they want to do the research.

Dustin Grinnell (00:31:18 --> 00:31:36)
As we started to end the conversation, we drifted into the existential. I asked Kaitlyn how the Bible tackled life's biggest questions. Why are we here? Where are we going? How do we love? How do we be good people? And after we die, is there something rather than nothing?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:31:36 --> 00:31:49)
Yeah. So, like, answers to all of those questions are in there. It's quite amazing. And that's why I think it's a book worth reading, just because you do have these big questions in there.

Dustin Grinnell (00:31:49 --> 00:31:53)
So what does it say about some of those things?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:31:53 --> 00:35:22)
Like, I believe that whole process— who created Earth and space and how do humans get here— like, I, I believe there is a God and that he did create each of us and that our purpose in life is essentially to live for him. And I guess the Bible outlines what that means in a deeper way. Like, what does it mean to live for God? And that's intertwined with just knowing that you are loved by God, and that helps us to love others and to be kind, be forgiving, be compassionate. This notion that we're not necessarily here by accident, that there is this plan and it helps to give life purpose.

'Cause I guess I wake up each day feeling like my purpose is to give God glory with my life and what that looks like means that I work really hard and the things that I'm given to do, right? So I think that everything comes from God. So when I'm working on a project for a client, that's almost like a form of worship. And when I'm talking with someone and they're telling me they're going through a really hard time, like I stop and I listen and I pray with that person because I wanna give God glory. And I know that he also cares for that person and me extending that love to them is this way.

Of like expressing God's love for them as well. So there's less mystery in that, like, obviously there are things I don't understand, but also being okay where I won't always have all the answers. So I don't know exactly how the sun was created or like, I won't have like the scientific things, right? It's, I think that's where faith comes in where you just, you start out believing that there is a God. And then you allow Him to, you could do this through prayer, just ask Him to reveal Himself to you.

And I believe like He's faithful to do that. I believe like there is communication between God and His people, like people He's created. And yeah, because there's communication that He will kind of direct us. In life. And so reading the Bible is divine revelation, I would say, or like the Bible is divine revelation.

I think it does provide an explanation for why we're here and how we should go about living life. This life isn't all that there is. So the 70 to 80 years you live on planet Earth, like, aren't it, right? There's life after death, that there is an eternity. And so these are all really big things that I'm trying to explain, but yeah, I think the Bible does a great job of explaining these really huge existential questions through personal stories of people in the Bible and through this huge narrative of Jesus and the cross.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:22 --> 00:35:22)
Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:35:22 --> 00:35:49)
You know, that leads me into like the power of sharing our stories. You're sharing yours and no doubt it will resonate with other people. And I think that's why I wanted to talk to you and you, you know, were gracious enough to say yes. And I was wondering like, why, you know, because like, could you share maybe what you think the power of sharing one's story is?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:35:49 --> 00:38:35)
Yeah. So I heard this anecdote, it goes like This young woman, she approaches a wise woman and asks her how she gained her wisdom. The wise woman led the young woman to the river and asked her to fill a cup of water. She did. Then the wise woman asked the young woman, how much space did that water take up in the river?

And she answered, well, just a tiny amount, I guess. The river is huge, but my cup only hold a fraction. And the wise woman said, in the grand river of knowledge and life, each of us holds only a small cup. True wisdom is recognizing the vastness that exists beyond our own understanding. Stay humble.

There's always more to learn, and each person has a river of wisdom within them. And I love that imagery. And I love, like, what you're doing with this podcast because, first of all, it takes, like, a lot of humility on your part and on the parts of your listeners to take time to listen to someone else's story, just to listen to their experience on Earth, like, in this life, at this time, at this moment, what they've experienced, and really, like, take the time to understand it. Not just to like hear it and dismiss it, which unfortunately I feel is a bit where our culture might be heading, where as soon as someone doesn't align maybe politically or with certain social values, you kind of just like don't take the time to really sit down and ask questions and just listen to what people have gone through in life and what they've experienced.. And I feel really privileged to get to share with you, like, my story and, like, what I've lived through and gone through and, like, my understanding of, like, why we're here and how I have found those answers in the Bible.

Dustin Grinnell (00:38:35 --> 00:38:57)
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. My last question is, I imagine you're still reading the Bible every day. What passages are you focusing on now? Like, what are you— your current age, your current place in life, like, how is the book kind of like informing your life now? And how did that differ from 25 and, you know, adolescence?

Caitlin Gilbert (00:38:57 --> 00:43:16)
I don't know if you've heard of Jezebel, but anyway, that was his wife. And they were known of being, uh, just really leading people to worship idols or other gods, let's say. And God was still very patient with them. There's this one point where Ahab is like, I've led the people astray to these other gods that were like— I mean, some of these gods from back in the day, like thousands of years ago, like they would require like the sacrifice of babies, let's say, you know. And so this is the type of idol worship that's going on.

And he's very like distraught at one point, but God was still very patient and was like ready to forgive and bless them again. And then in the New Testament, I was reading the Gospel of Mark and Judas. This is, I think, from a storyteller perspective, this part always quite strikes me because Judas betrays Jesus. He gets him arrested and he's part of his group of like 12 friends or disciples that have been with Jesus and following him. And he betrays him with a kiss.

Like he kisses him on the cheek. And because he kisses him on the cheek, the people know who to go and arrest. And eventually this develops into the story of Jesus dying on the cross. But as part of this gospel, at this point in the story, this friend of his has betrayed him by kissing him on the cheek. And another disciple who is like his best friend, Jesus tells him, you're going to betray me, like you're going to to deny that you knew me.

And his friend's like, never, I would never do that. And he ends up like denying him, like, I don't know Jesus, I don't know this man. But Jesus, he still like shows kindness to Peter later on, and he, he still accepts his friendship despite the fact that in that moment he didn't stand up for him or defend him or even acknowledge that he knew him. So yeah, for me, that story just showed that Jesus loves us even when we don't perform well or are even our best in that moment. But He sees that full picture of the better person we will become and loves us still.

So over time, it's probably been 5 years now that I've been reading the Bible consistently and part of my church community. And when I read it today, I think the verses that probably stand out to me have to do with, like, marriage now that I'm married and business, actually. Like, there's a lot about just, like, how to handle your finances and also family, like what it means to just love your family well and kind of build a family for the future. And, but there are also just these key verses, I think, no matter how old I'm gonna get that just anchor me in this kind of framework for life. So verses like, "This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you." These verses just remind me of like these essential truths and ways of living that Jesus invites me into.

So I think no matter how complicated life will get or the different life stages bring different challenges, I just remember to love each other well. And yeah, so thank you for listening to me, Dustin. I do hope, I think in sharing my story, it is this way to love complete strangers I've never met too and just share, yeah, my cup of wisdom. And I do hope the best for everyone. And I just want everyone to know that they are loved by God and by the Creator.

Dustin Grinnell (00:43:16 --> 00:43:40)
So, yeah, thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Curiously. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Kaelin Gilbert. If you're enjoying this podcast, please consider leaving a rating or a review. They encourage people to listen and help attract great guests.

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